Across The Way Thread #23292
Questioning new documentary, Who Killed River Phoenix
Created Byo-turn
Created DateWed, Nov 21, 2012
Created Time05:40PM GMT

UserDate
o-turn11/21/2012 5:40:01 PM
BARRY12/25/2012 3:50:01 PM
BARRY12/25/2012 3:50:19 PM
BARRY12/25/2012 3:50:19 PM
popularthinksAA12/25/2012 3:50:01 PM
buddyhollybuddyholly12/25/2012 3:50:01 PM
Pescado1/21/2013 3:20:00 AM
browncaroline991/22/2013 2:10:00 PM
rek1/23/2013 3:30:00 PM
o-turn1/23/2013 9:40:00 PM
Pescado2/15/2013 7:33:46 PM
browncaroline992/16/2013 2:00:00 PM
o-turn4/23/2013 4:40:07 PM
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AuthorMessage #71361
buddyhollybuddyhollySubjectRe: Questioning new documentary, Who Killed River Phoenix
PostedTue, Dec 25, 2012 03:50PM GMTMethodWeb-Site
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A very well thought out questioning of the proposed documentary...For many years I was fascinated with the last night of River Phoenix' life. Perhaps this had something to do with my own relatively young age when River left us so abruptly (I was nineteen at the time and, prior to October 31, 1993, considered River to be the actor of MY generation). Whatever the case may be, I am thirty nine now and am much more focused on, and concerned for, the remembrance and preservation of the small body of film work that this young boy left behind for us. HOWEVER...

Barry Lawrence wrote a corker of a Riv biography. It is the best one out there in my humble opinion. And Bill Richert is a director I admire greatly. Both men have seemed in the past to only have the best interest of Phoenix in mind. I certainly have never caught a hint of any exploitation on their part. My verdict for the moment is a "wait and see" approach. If this doc does come to fruition, here's hoping for a well studied research piece that will transcend the garbage bin of TMZ and Inside Edition.
AuthorMessage #71390
PescadoSubjectRe: Questioning new documentary, Who Killed River Phoenix
PostedMon, Jan 21, 2013 03:20AM GMTMethodWeb-Site
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I too feel there is something more to the simple story that John gave River something. John was really messed up at the time, but still loved River like a brother. With this in mind I do not think the "fatal concoction" was given by John.

I believe something else happened -- something dark.

It is not only Richert that felt this way -- Peter Bogdanovich also feels River was killed by envy.

Barry's original inspiration to write his book was based on River coming in a dream "wanting the truth to be told -- to set the record straight."

I have had this feeling as well -- there is some truth that was not known. The truth being uncovered is not intended to identify or prosecute the offender -- but I feel instead River's desire to set the record straight for his loved ones -- maybe for his family and Samantha.

This thread immediately brought to mind an eery quote from an article in 2012, Bogdanovich stated;

"Tony Curtis said (regarding Rivers' death), "It's impossible to calculate the level of envy in Hollywood." I think envy killed him."

Taken from; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nicki-richesin/interview-with-peter-bogd_b_1910532.html

On a side note, Jonathan Price talks briefly about his experience with Dark Blood. For context, Mr. Price RARELY gives interviews. From what is sounds like, just being back in LA brought an immediate shift to River's attitude -- as if the energy there had a profound (negative) impact on him (River).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/9812957/Jonathan-Pryce-I-cant-bring-myself-to-watch-the-film-I-made-with-River-Phoenix.html

I agree this is a "wait and see" situation. I do feel strongly that River wants some kind of "truth" to be known. Not for reasons of justice or persecution -- but for understanding. Why else would he have reached out to Barry in a dream asking for truth? Why would Bogdanovich also feel this way, in addition to Richert? Something to consider.

AuthorMessage #71391
browncaroline99SubjectRe: Questioning new documentary, Who Killed River Phoenix
PostedTue, Jan 22, 2013 02:10PM GMTMethodWeb-Site
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Hi there,
I also agree that there was something dark going on. What I could also never understand was the thing that River`s family didn`t want a proper investigation. Why didn`t they want to know who gave him that evil fatal drug? And why did they (the family and his girl friend)get away with not returning phone calls from the police? I must say when I watch interviews with Samantha talking about River, that really makes me feel weird and unconfortable, I don`t know why.
If "Dark Blood" is ever going to be released on DVD, I don`t think I can watch it. It must have been hell for River to make that film, I can`t handle that.That might sound crazy, but whatever.
AuthorMessage #71392
rekSubjectRe: Questioning new documentary, Who Killed River Phoenix
PostedWed, Jan 23, 2013 03:30PM GMTMethodWeb-Site
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I think people need to stop making accusations unless they are 100% sure of what happened that night. I personally don't think William Richert should be making this documentary.

Now as for fans who wish hell upon a man who may very well not even be guilty of doing what most people think he's done - that really gets to me. I've seen so many fans say things like that and it's one hell of an accusation to throw around. Their argument for doing so? Because they heard someone say that they heard someone say something. I've seen River's family being critisized for not wanting to talk about him in public. I've heard people suggest that a dark secret is being hidden from the public. And all I keep thinking is NO WONDER his family decided to keep quiet because everytime they mention him his death is almost instantly being sensationalized - YET again.

I've talked to a lot of different people over the years who were friends with River and of ALL the stories I've heard only one of the versions seems to be even remotely credible - and guess what? It's the one without any dramatic twists.

I celebrated Halloween at the Viper Room one year. A couple of rather unknown bands were playing that night. There were no River Phoenixes, No Johnny Depps, no Fleas. Yet the place was completely packed. I could've scratched my butt without anyone noticing. If it was that packed when there weren't even any celebrities there, I don't even wanna guess how packed it must've been back in 93'. My point is even if you WERE there that night it's far from sure you would've known much of anything about what really happened to River. The most specific stories from that night are the ones that seem most credible of all the stories I've heard. And ironically the specific ones all kinda point to John NOT being guilty of doing what people generally think he did.

I feel so bad when I think about the hate mail he's received over the years (that's how convinced I am that he's not guilty) and I feel just as bad when I think about all the stuff that's been written about River's family over the years. They may actually see it one day - if they haven't already.

A young guy took drugs, for whatever reason, and tragically died. Why can't we just leave it at that, move on and start celebrating just his life? Oh, right. Because it's too boring. "I'm Still Here" comes to mind...

I will not be commenting this any further. One last thing before I go though: I'm deeply ashamed of and embarrassed about some of the things I've said in here in the past (although I've never wished hell upon anyone) and I wish I could take it back. I'm sorry if I'm pissing anyone off by saying this but I honestly think it's about time this stops.
AuthorMessage #71393
o-turnSubjectRe: Questioning new documentary, Who Killed River Phoenix
PostedWed, Jan 23, 2013 09:40PM GMTMethodWeb-Site
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Thank you, Barry, for your reply. Although, I would count granting an interview and promising contacts as 'involvment' in the project.

Pescado wrote:
"I have had this feeling as well -- there is some truth that was not known. The truth being uncovered is not intended to identify or prosecute the offender -- but I feel instead River's desire to set the record straight for his loved ones -- maybe for his family and Samantha."

In my opinion, this is complete projection. I don't believe you have any knowledge of 'River's desire'. You ask "why did River reach out to Barry in a dream.."- which I also believe is projection. On the your part. On Barry's part. It is a matter of opinion and is based squarely on the belief system of an individual. Barry recieved a 'calling' to write a book. Whether this was River's spirit or Barry's subconcious will be up for debate until we all cross over and discover the truth, or abruptly cease to exist one day.

I, personally, do not believe we should be justifying our own need for the truth by blindly convincing ourselves that it is what River Phoenix would want. I think it is arrogant.
If I detail how River came to me in a dream and told me that he is sick to the back teeth of people prying into his private life and hounding his family and friends, does that make my spiritual experience less valid than Barry's or yours?

When it comes to those who are no longer around to give the only valid and true opinion that may possibly exist, I think it is unfair to presume on their behalf.
In my opinion, Barry was justified in writing his book purely by being a writer with a keen interest in the subject. Nothing more.

Falling into agreement with Rek. I too have heard one take on events which excludes the 'dark forces' and dramatic spins but leaves pleanty of reason as to why the people involved closed the book due to guilty feelings on their part. Not direct, murdering guilt. No conspiricy. Just the normal, human level of guilt over the death of a loved one that it would take to not want to talk about it with strangers or wind up in court room in front of the worlds press. Although, they probably should have taken that route 20 years ago to diffuse the use of River as poster boy for mystical, cloak-and-dagger celebrity deaths.

The problem I find with most people who go yearning after something more macabre in River's death is that they have no personal experience or knowledge of drug use, abuse or addiction. Therefore their starting off point is often skewed with images or filthy dealers and backstreets and movie guff that has no baring on a real life situation at all. This too goes for people who may have known River personally, but no nothing of the nature of hardcore drug use themselves, or the people who participate- who were and are, just like River who they knew and loved.

I think the moment you attempt to make the person you knew and loved higher and mighter than the situation they were in and people who surrounded them is the moment you can easily create 'the bad guys' and 'the good guys' and your senario of 'good vs evil'. Which is exactly what has happened to River in the eyes of some for these past two decades.

In all likelyhood, he was no better or worse a soul, no more targeted or protected than those he associated with. Simply unluckier. The lack or drama in this theory seems to make it slightly unpalatable for those who seek 'River's truth'.
Total Messages: 13 Page 2 of 3
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